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Non-Hybrids Pegged Back Further for Le Mans

LMP1 non-hybrids face reduced fuel flow for Le Mans Test Day, additional EoT to be defined…

Photo: MPS Agency

LMP1 non-hybrids have received a further reduction in performance for next month’s Le Mans Test Day, with the privateers set for a reduced fuel flow and other possible changes heading into the 24 Hours of Le Mans.

The FIA has confirmed the Equivalence of Technology for the June 3 test, which will see the non-hybrids maximum petrol flow reduced from 110 to 108 kg/h, with the Toyota TS050 Hybrid remaining unchanged at 80 kg/h.

The maximum petrol energy and maximum petrol per stint, meanwhile, will be defined following the test day, with “no fuel lift required” per the latest EoT document.

A number of LMP1 teams, including Rebellion Racing, were forced to manually lift and coast throughout the FIA World Endurance Championship season-opening Total Six Hours of Spa due to not having the same software as the factory teams.

ACO Sporting Director Vincent Beaumesnil told Sportscar365 at Spa they are targeting a 0.5-second lap time difference between hybrids and non-hybrids at Le Mans, with the hybrids to also get a one additional lap per stint advantage.

It’s anticipated the Toyotas will be permitted to complete 11-lap stints at Le Mans, compared to 10 laps for non-hybrids. 

The latest adjustment comes in the wake of a power and fuel capacity reduction to the non-hybrids between the Prologue pre-season test and at Spa, which saw the privateers unable to match the outright pace of the Toyotas.

John Dagys is the founder and Editor-in-Chief of Sportscar365 as well as the recently launched e-racing365 Web site for electric racing. Dagys spent eight years as a motorsports correspondent for FOXSports.com/SPEED Channel, and contributes to other publications worldwide. Contact John

72 Comments

72 Comments

  1. WEC iz dum

    May 23, 2018 at 8:38 am

    so much for ‘racing’
    so again, Toyota is not only faster per lap, but can also go longer per stint.
    I understand that this is a very long and tough race, and anything can happen, but just give Toyota the trophy before the green flag, and if they happen to lose somehow, then take it away.

    A ‘win’ for Toyota at this point is meaningless.

    • AudiTT

      May 23, 2018 at 7:02 pm

      The Toyota’s are built to the same regs as 2017 – with one exception. In 2018 they’ll do 3-4 laps less per stint.

      The non-hybrid privateers have been given power, weight and aero breaks. They’ll be capable of sub 3.20 laptimes vs the mid 3.25’s of older LMP1’s and 3.26 of LMP2’s.

      2018 is the first year of the new non-hybrid regs. An entirely different concept to hybrid so EoT is required to allow the cars to race together. The ACO have determined hybrids should have a theoretical 0.5 second advantage at Le Mans as they are state of the art technology. For comparison, last year Toyota was on pole at Le Mans by 2.5 seconds from Porsche.

      The EoT changes for Le Mans – which have not been detailed in full – will give non-hybrids a relative performance boost. Increased fuel per lap will avoid coasting to save fuel, increase stint length, and performance.

      • Paul

        May 24, 2018 at 2:59 am

        problem is that the projected race lap speed difference of H vs P until now has been greater than intended. Unless they have come up with a new way of calculating this, the gap will be more than 0,5sec.
        More stops = close to a lap over the race
        longer stops (refuelling time) = 2½ minute (if all can change tires within the refuelling time (otherwise maybe 1½)
        0,5sec over a race = close to a lap
        = Toyota will be 2½ laps ahead before the race starts and before the customary larger H vs P lap time difference kicks in. Should the privateers be able to run
        an average 0,5sec faster per lap, Toyota will still win.
        I don’t know how they expect this to be equal, fair or fun to follow.

    • Matt

      May 24, 2018 at 6:41 am

      How is this equivalence of technology? They aren’t equal! How is a non hybrid team supposed to compete with a 0.5 second differential and one lap less on a stint?

      • Thomas

        May 24, 2018 at 12:34 pm

        Maybe Toyota should get the hybrid system off the car and have the same power+fuel+weight then the private teams and we will see if the gap is lower than 0.5s. If Porsche couldn’t keep up, I hardly imagine a 4 months dev Rebellion make it.

        Toyota has a better car, they should win. Its probably going to be boring, but we have enough GTE-Pro to entertain.

  2. therandomguy

    May 23, 2018 at 8:42 am

    Op please nerf the Toyota. EOT gate and hybrid gate is back and in full swing. Send an SOS call to the privateers. They need to take a stand and say if we cannot race with Toyota we quit!

    • Harry Manback

      May 23, 2018 at 11:58 am

      ^This is the correct approach: Develop a set of regulations for LMP1-P, then hold the factory/Hybrid teams back, and let them spend their excesses of money to figure out how they will be better.

      I feel like I’ve heard this idea / seen it implicated before however. . . . not sure where though???

      • TuckerC

        May 23, 2018 at 12:50 pm

        This is typical of the French/FIA and was done when the Matra had a good engine, so they decided to cut the prototypes back from 5 liters to 3.. I agree with “therandomguy:” have the other LMP guys withdraw.to day that WEC is corrupt doesn’t even come close

        • AudiTT

          May 23, 2018 at 7:12 pm

          Here are the facts.

          Toyota are using the same regs as last year.

          Toyota will be doing 3-4 laps per stint fewer than last year.

          Non-hybrid privateers will be upto 10 seconds per lap quicker than previous years.

          EoT changes are pro-rata. Hybrids produce less energy per lap at Le Mans so non-hybrid are adjusted appropriately.

          Non-hybrids will have more (relative) fuel per stint to Spa. This will allow greater (relative) performance and longer stint lengths.

  3. David Chaste

    May 23, 2018 at 8:59 am

    Well the toyota is just supremely efficient compared to the other cars. It’s simply the better car. Dont discount the fact that it has been in development for 5 years running.

    Sure they want to help the privateers but at this time their cars are just at the beginning of their development. Toyota is making a huge commitment to be here, so their presence should also fairly be respected.

    • Bird

      May 23, 2018 at 10:01 am

      There’s no question that the Toyota is the best car. That’s not the problem. The problem is that the EoT instead of balancing, it’s giving them more of an advantage. The ACO is literally giving Toyota a advantage on stint length.

    • Andrew Pyke

      May 23, 2018 at 10:53 am

      What can’t be respected is trying to win a race in the way they are going about it.

      • AudiTT

        May 23, 2018 at 7:18 pm

        Toyota are building a car to the same regulations as last year, but have agreed to stint lengths 3-4 laps shorter.

        By contrast, the non-hybrids will be upto 10 seconds faster than previous years after a raft of regulation breaks.

        The EoT at Le Mans will advantage privateers as they’ll be allocated more fuel. The ‘power reduction’ is nothing more than adjustments to account for hybrids producing less energy over a lap at Le Mans.

    • Dave

      May 23, 2018 at 11:26 am

      I’m sorry. If Toyota is “simply the better car” then why hamper and then re-hamper the competition? If it is not plainly clear by now, the organizers are terrified that Toyota could get beat. At this stage in development, ICE is a superior racing technology. The Toyota may be more “advanced”, but the Orecas are not knuckle-dragging Neanderthals by comparison.

      • TF110

        May 23, 2018 at 12:13 pm

        Ok so why is it that the Toyota was hampered for this year? One of the only reasons it set a distance record at Spa was because of the new pit stop rules of being allowed to change your tires while refueling. It’s still doing less laps per stint than last year. But the pace has improved. This is the third year in a row that the hybrid cars have been cut back. Somehow that slips through the clickbait headlines of a less than 2% drop of fuel flow per hour. The new teams probably aren’t even getting 95% of the fuel allowed.

      • Jack

        May 23, 2018 at 12:38 pm

        If you gave Toyota the same amount of fuel as the privateers, they would go almost double the distance. That’s why their is stint limits, because the Toyota literally has 44 liters of fuel, privateers are at 80.

  4. lateapex

    May 23, 2018 at 8:59 am

    If ACO crawls any further into their own arse, we could have a GT car win overall.

    • Andy

      May 23, 2018 at 9:06 am

      Possibly not a GT overall but the chances, like last year, of an LMP2 leading and/or winning again seems high to me. I’m thinking the LMP1-P won’t make it to the end close to the front with only one race under their belts for the most part.

      GTE is pegged back again to maintain a gap to the LMP2s so think they’ll be laps back from the lead prototypes, barring that R-word impacting the race.

    • AudiTT

      May 23, 2018 at 7:25 pm

      This year we’ll have the fastest ever LMP1 Hybrids and LMP1 non-hybrids. The non-hybrids will be upto 10 seconds quicker than last year.

      You really need to look beyond headlines that portray the non-hybrids as being pulled back to a point where they’d struggle to beat an LMP2. In reality they’ve had a massive performance boost and will be getting another at Le Mans. Yes, that’s right. The Le Mans EoT brings privateers closer to the hybrids thanks to a proposed greater fuel allocation.

      • gp

        May 24, 2018 at 9:33 am

        The important word you use is: “Closer”. Closer does not mean competition, it means that the non-hybrids can race but not beat the Toyota’s.

        You come across as unbiased but your comments clearly support Toyota having an advantage, which they have. You state that the non-hybrids are 10 seconds faster but you do not tell us if they are truly able to compete with the Toyota’s. I think we all know they will not be able to compete and with that in mind your comments now come across as merely patronizing.

        When non-hybrids can compete toe-to-toe with the Toyota’s the race will be balanced. As it stands now, whether the non-hybrids are 10 seconds faster or not, that decrease in lap times means nothing if they cannot turn a lap as fast as the hybrid and stint as long as the hybrid. If they cannot then the race, the EoT and any arguments for slowing down the non-hybrids are merely a show for Toyota.

        The ACO and the FIA have been doing all they can to ensure a “obsolete” formula will not beat the “Green” technology basket they have put all their eggs into.

        No amount of “unbiased” pedantry will change that.

      • Ko I

        May 30, 2018 at 4:09 pm

        FIA/ACO keeps promising to bring the hybids and the privateers closer. Yet, every. single. time. it’s a lie. Because every. single. time. the hybrids are that much faster.

  5. Blaneysellstrashbags@Ring24

    May 23, 2018 at 9:33 am

    I’m betting that a lot of folks would find it pretty funny if both Toys end up retired rather early. Then watch the non hybrids have a proper race and thumb their noses at the ACO.

    • jason

      May 23, 2018 at 9:42 am

      I think Toyota has learned a lot from their past failures. Issues that would take them 60 minutes to fix in the past might just cost them 30 minutes this time. I think Toyota will still win the race. I hope someone else wins however.

      The real race is GTE though. That will get most of my attention. I don’t expect TV will give it justice so hopefully Chevy, Ford, and Porsche will all have live streaming on board broadcasts.

    • Rus'L

      May 23, 2018 at 12:22 pm

      Funny? Heck, I’m cheering for this!

  6. Roger

    May 23, 2018 at 9:36 am

    What Toyota couldn’t accomplish in 10 yrs against Audi and Porsche, the ACO will give them by eliminating all other competition thru power and weight reductions….

    • TF110

      May 23, 2018 at 12:16 pm

      10 years? Try 5. The wec started in 2012 when Toyota joined Audi. You can’t always beat bad fortune.

  7. JG

    May 23, 2018 at 10:05 am

    The new 2020 regs can’t come soon enough. BoP, ridiculous rule sets resulting in fugly cars, handing Toyota the win… this is a joke. The last truly great year for sports-protos at LM was ’99.

    • Jack

      May 23, 2018 at 10:09 am

      you do realize toyota asked for the lmp1 privateers to be brought up to their speed right?

      • Blaneysellstrashbags@Ring24

        May 23, 2018 at 1:10 pm

        Yea but that very well could have been for show only.

        • Jack

          May 23, 2018 at 2:11 pm

          Privateers went from 5 seconds off the pace to on pace with the Porsche lmp1 at Ricard , it’s not for show.

          • AHAGGY

            May 23, 2018 at 7:28 pm

            Most of the commenters seem to have no idea just how much quicker the privateers are this year. Or for that matter how EoT works……and how it helps privateers at Le Mans.

  8. Jack

    May 23, 2018 at 10:08 am

    ok, once again people do not understand the situation, toytoa is ALLOWING people to be close to them, toyota didnt have to let people close, they could just say build the fastest car to the regs and see who wins then. stop complaining that toyota isnt letting them be faster, they would never have been faster without this in the first place.

    • Harry Manback

      May 23, 2018 at 11:14 am

      . . . . . No one is “complaining that toyota isnt letting them be faster” – that’s not remotely the issue at hand! {You type real good, by the way}.

      The issue is that Toyota is being handed a win as a participation trophy because millennials ruin everything.

      • Wolf Dragon

        May 23, 2018 at 11:34 am

        I’m a millennial and I think Toyota being handed the trophy is the biggest farce to LMP1 ever. LMP1 needs to just die.

        Get the hell out of here with that “millennials ruin everything.” Besides, the Boomers did it first.

        • Harry Manback

          May 23, 2018 at 11:51 am

          “[I’m a millennial and what you said offends me so you should leave]” – how every millennial of you.

          However, you do make three accurate points: 1) Toyota should be embarrassed with themselves; 2) LMP1 is DEAD; 3) Boomers do suck as well.

          • Rus'L

            May 23, 2018 at 12:24 pm

            Let’s face it. All generations suck … to all the other generations.

          • AudiTT

            May 23, 2018 at 7:35 pm

            A. Toyota are building cars to the same regs as 2017. What on earth do they have to be “embarrassed” about.

            B. Toyota’s stint lengths are 3-4 laps shorter than last year as they agreed less efficient non-hybrids need to be closer.

            C. Non-hybrids will be massively quicker this year. Comfortably under 3.20 with much better top speed than the Toyota’s.

            D. This years LMP1 field is bigger than many years.

            E. The next set of LMP1 regs will be announced at Le Mans and IMSA will be part of that.

      • Jack

        May 23, 2018 at 12:21 pm

        Toyota would have a massive advantage regardless, they told the aco to speed up the privateers. You seem to miss the fact toyota would be 8 seconds last year if they didn’t ASK the aco to speed up the privateers, and they asked the aco to keep there car at the same speed. Toyota engineered a car that would be 5-6 seconds faster than the others, stop complaining that the aco is pegging Back privateer cars that have more power than the Peugeot 908 just to keep up.

      • Jack

        May 23, 2018 at 12:34 pm

        How are they being handed a win when they asked the aco to MAKE THE PRIVATEERS literally 5 seconds a lap faster. I don’t understand why people are annoyed that the cars that were given 300 extra hp just to be within the same zip code as Toyota are being pegged back because they will likely be faster at Le Mans. Don’t forget Toyota is running 500hp in there engine, while the privateers are running 800 minimum. And Toyota running 44 litres of fuel instead of 80 like the privateers. Toyota has a way fasteR car built to the regulations, don’t forget what times it was able to do when it’s EOT wasn’t being run at PAUL Ricard.

        • Matt

          May 23, 2018 at 2:26 pm

          These P1 privateers are only running at around 650hp. Whatever you read about SMP’s engine being 800hp is completely false. P1 is a literal joke at this point. The ACO/FIA will not be letting the privateers give Toyota competition on even grounds and everybody knows it.

          • Jack

            May 23, 2018 at 5:12 pm

            Lmp1 is currently 800, lmp1 was 650 last year. Lmp2 is currently 600.

          • AudiTT

            May 23, 2018 at 7:42 pm

            The Gibson LMP2 engine produces 620bhp in stock form. The turbo LMP1’s are comfortably over 700bhp.

            At Le Mans you’ll likely see Toyota set a new qualifying lap record and the best privateer dip under 3.18 – maybe even 3.16.

      • JG

        May 23, 2018 at 12:37 pm

        Hehe… I almost fell off my chair with that one

        • JG

          May 23, 2018 at 12:42 pm

          Power levels of the LMP-1 non-hybrids is only in the 670-700 bhp range.

          • Jack

            May 23, 2018 at 2:12 pm

            Incorrect, smp have stated they were passed 800 at the PAUL Ricard test.

  9. Cactus Tony

    May 23, 2018 at 10:31 am

    At least there’s no BoP in LMP1.

  10. Mike S

    May 23, 2018 at 11:12 am

    I can hear Shaw and Hindhaugh now with their abacuses trying to talk through pit and stint strategy with 3 hours to go which is now more confusing when it is applied to the race. 1+1=3 but add 1 then subract 2 and you get the original correct answer 2.

  11. cbbrit

    May 23, 2018 at 11:20 am

    I still think that Toyota are taking a huge gamble by not entering a third car. One DNF (accident) and another DNF (mechanical) are distinct possibilities here and that would be another disappointment! Just saying!

    • Mike S.

      May 23, 2018 at 12:47 pm

      I agree. It isn’t assured. Have a conservative setup car that has some pace and then have the Alonso and Conway speedsters. Luck can strike, good or bad and they can only control what they can control

  12. vanillachinchilla

    May 23, 2018 at 11:29 am

    sorry what. “targeting a .5 sec difference” ??? isnt lmp1 about building a faster car, let the teams decide what their lap times are…

    • Jack

      May 23, 2018 at 12:35 pm

      If they did that Toyota would be running 10 seconds a lap faster.

    • Socialist

      May 23, 2018 at 4:52 pm

      It is more important to treat the teams unequally in order to produce equal outcomes than to have an equal set of rules where unequal outcomes may occur.

  13. Wolf Dragon

    May 23, 2018 at 11:36 am

    what needs to happen to ACO is the same thing IndyCar did to USAC in the ’90s: tell them to kick rocks. Their antiquated ways are dead and they deserve to be reduced to a relic with no substantial standing in Motorsport whatsoever.

    • Rus'L

      May 23, 2018 at 12:26 pm

      “the same thing IndyCar did to USAC in the ’90s: tell them to kick rocks”

      The 70’s. CART was created in 1978 as an owners’ revolt against USAC.

  14. Pierre

    May 23, 2018 at 11:52 am

    So is this just a EoT to see what the effect is and then fine-tune it later?

    • TF110

      May 23, 2018 at 12:18 pm

      Yeah it’s just for the test day. We’ll see how it goes from there and if the ACO respond. People are getting bent out of shape for nothing.

      • Brick

        May 23, 2018 at 3:55 pm

        LOUD NOISES!!!!!

  15. jason

    May 23, 2018 at 12:38 pm

    Lets hope the Toyotas break early. In 2017, they hit their problems between hours 6 and 12.

    I think in GTE some cars will break because the pace will be so fast.

    • Mike S.

      May 23, 2018 at 3:22 pm

      I agree. I know EoT and BoP are needed but this stint length regulation is beyond that.

  16. Anonymous

    May 23, 2018 at 1:01 pm

    What a surprise! More fuel for the “we are ACO and we don’t want privateers to win” fire!

  17. Greeny

    May 23, 2018 at 1:54 pm

    WEC have got to give the privateers a reason to compete. Can’t encourage them to enter a series that they have no chance of winning a race in unless the Toyotas stumble. Make the privateers just as fast but one less lap per stint on fuel. That way the racing is interesting, fast and close but the factory hybrids have a slight advantage but don’t storm away with it.

  18. Robert

    May 23, 2018 at 3:28 pm

    “non-hybrids” – funny, as if that doesn’t just mean not Toyota. I wish they would just stop with the hybrid nonsense. For some reason they have this obsession with racing hybrid technology. Give it up already – no one else wants it. But they are so stuck on the idea that they have pretzel logic (rules like EoT) to try to justify giving Toyota (the only team interested in hyrid, or able) to have a venue to run a bunch of parade laps (effectively uncontestwd) WHY!? Please stop the madness so that we can have actual real racing in LMP1 instead of the circus it is now.

    • Truth

      May 23, 2018 at 3:56 pm

      People who support the green agenda enjoy the smell of their own farts.

    • JG

      May 23, 2018 at 4:22 pm

      They need to get rid of both hybrid tech AND diesel engines for that matter… Then get rid of the idiotic “big honking holes” and “big honking fins” and return to 2000mm wide cars with 15″ rear wheels. THEN I’ll consider being a fan of the WEC.

      The only real solution in my mind is factory sponsorship for the historic Group C and pre-2006 LMP’s and use those cars for the WEC instead of today’s crap. Current technology tires alone would drop 1992/93 Group C lap times at Le Mans below Toyota’s pole from last year. Easy. If you don’t believe me ask Mike Fuller. Current tire tech makes todays LMP’s look a lot faster than they actually are compared to group C.

    • Dave

      May 25, 2018 at 6:11 am

      Toyota basically has a car that has Ludicrous mode. They are the only car in the fields to have this. Even at Le Mans, passing is tricky and depending on your car or class, limited to a certain number of places on the track. Having push to pass and easily navigating traffic is worth on average a couple of seconds a lap at least. That’s why their 7 car could start from the pits at Spa, one lap down, and still put 2 laps on the next closest competitor in their class (actually 3 if you consider the lap they were penalized). No one seems to ever bring this up.

  19. AMGMerc

    May 23, 2018 at 4:51 pm

    Well this is just the latest in the debacle that has become the WEC/Lemans, these people couldn’t screw a light bulb in correctly if you ask me. Lemans is my favorite race of the year, and the ACO continues to come up with ways to simply screw it up! Did they hire Brian France as a consultant???? With this latest development, not even sure if the race will be worth watching this year, except to see if the Toyota’s are still running or not, otherwise it’s a mute point. The real race will be for LMP2, and GTE!

  20. Rich

    May 24, 2018 at 4:45 am

    The one lap stint length advantage for the Toyota’s is the killer here. Over the entire race distance that puts them basically a lap ahead before the race has even started. I don’t understand why the ACO insists on mandating mandatory stint lengths. Just let the cars race and we’ll see who is quicker over 24 hours. I honestly hope both the Toyota’s break and Rebellion take an overall win, just to make a mockery of the ACO’s stance.

  21. Fernando

    May 24, 2018 at 10:14 am

    Toyota or LMP2 going to win. Privateers unproven

  22. JG

    May 24, 2018 at 3:23 pm

    It’s worth remembering that Toyota had the fastest car in ’92, ’93, ’98, ’99, and ’17.

  23. CD

    May 24, 2018 at 7:40 pm

    Still Laughing!!! Still Laughing….

  24. David

    May 25, 2018 at 3:22 am

    Toyota found out they have to slow down their pace to be realiable. So they ask FIA…

  25. Ko I

    May 30, 2018 at 4:06 pm

    The least the FIA/ACO could do is just be honest about not wanting non-hybrids to have a chance outside of both Toyotas suffering serious problems. The 6h of Spa showed, without a doubt, that there is no EoT between hybrid and non-hybrid cars. Rebellion wasn’t lounging around and they finished two laps behind the Toyota that *started the race a lap down.*
    But, no, they were desperate to keep LMP1 from just totally collapsing on the first Superseason, so, once again, they completely about the EoT. They did it for the diesels against the petrol cars, and they’ve consistently rigged the hybrid vs non-hybrid regs to ensure only a hybrid can win.

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